By: Rick Landers
Waddy Wachtel and Leland Sklar – Photo credit: Jeff Fasano
The word is out that some of the top session players in the world have formed a new group,The Immediate Family, and they’ve locked into keeping their fans up to date on what’s happening with them individually, as well as a together as they release new songs, work on a new video, and plan the release of a new album on the Quarto Valley Records label.
The Immediate Family members have worked together for decades and include: Danny Kortchmar, Waddy Wachtel, Leland Sklar, Russ Kunkel and Steve Postell, all music legends in their own right.
As individual session players, their names can be found on albums by such music icons as: Brian Wilson, Jackson Browne, Linda Ronstadt, Don Henley, Stevie Nicks, James Taylor, Bryan Ferry, Carole King, Warren Zevon and and they literally have worked on thousands of recordings.
So, it can be said their new super group can be considered a force of nature, not only covering major hits they were originally on, or even co-wrote, but coming up with new tracks where they count coup by gifting us with their talents by working relentlessly, releasing new videos and video streams weekly, sometimes more.
Guitar International interviewed all members of The Immediate Family to touch base with each, so GI readers could get up to speed with the group’s work and everything else they have going individually.
We met up with the multi-talented and most extraordinary musician, Waddy Wachtel, (Robert “Waddy” Wachtel) where we talked about the “Family”, as well as dug into guitars and pedals (or lack of), his signature sound, his work with The Everly Brothers, Warren Zevon, Linda Ronstadt and others, and then wound up talking about and introducing one another to songs from the past that one of us hadn’t heard, and notable guitars one of us may not have been familiar with, as well as a few of our favorites.
Music enthusiasts indulge themselves by repeatedly listening to songs that end up being considered milestone recordings, songs like “Werewolves of London”[Asylum – 1978], that are impossible to hear and not put on repeat. Credit Waddy for co-writing that one!
When flipping over the Excitable Boy album cover, fans checked out the credits and found that the monster guitar work on that track is Wachtel. Waddy’s credits noted his contributions as a co-producer and co-writer, his weighing in on vocal harmonies and work as a synth-player. Waddy collaborated with Zevon on several projects, nailing it on gritty soaring leads, as well as during more poignant moments, like playing rhythm on the sensuous, “Carmelita”.
His big break came before his work with Warren, when he snagged the job of Music Director for The Everly Brothers, a dream job for Waddy who loved the sensational harmony of brothers, Don and Phil. Note for note, he knew their songs and he tells us how he landed the job in our interview.
In 1973, Waddy was smokin’ it on his own single on the Anthem label, Celebration and Stateside labels, featuring his compositions, “You’re the One”, with the flip side a chill track called, “Love You Should Save”. Two of his backup folks were none other than formidable Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham.
Wachtel’s melodically gritty electric guitar work is well known, but he’s gifted us with cool strumming on acoustic and, he’s a talented singer-songwriter who’s penned songs for a mosaic of others, including Linda Ronstadt, J.D. Souther, Keith Richards, Jimmy Buffet, Stevie Nicks, David Lindley and more.
Work with the Everly Brothers and Warren, and Waddy’s own pursuit of excellence all broadened and extended his reach into the highly competitive music industry, positioning him to pursue an enormous body of work that included, co-writing “Her Town Too” with James Taylor and J.D. Souther, guitar on Randy Newman’s masterpiece, Little Criminals, lead guitar on Steve Perry’s #1 1984 hit “My Sherrie”, acoustic and slide guitar, and production consulting for Keith Richard’s debut solo album, Talk is Cheap, that deputized him as one of Richard’s X-pensive Winos, guitar on Bob Dylan’s Under the Red Sky….his notable river of work and world-class musicianship run deep and wide, and deserves a serious look and listen.
In our interview, Waddy talks about his love of music, some of his “go to” guitars, his friendship with Leslie West (Mountain), The Everly Brothers, Warren (Sandy) Zevon, amps and more. Today, he’s immersed in his work with his friends and his world-class musical cohorts in The Immediate Family. We began our conversation talking about the group’s video stream of the hit song written by Jackson Browne and The Immediate Family’s Danny Kortchmar, “Somebody’s Baby”, as well as the group’s video of James Taylor’s, “Machine Gun Kelly”.
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Rick: I watched you all play “Somebody’s Baby”. Had you guys played virtually before, or was that the first time you, not just that song, but are you new to using that type of software?
Waddy Wachtel: Five songs back we were new to it. It was brand new to us. We did a song of mine called “Easier”, that was the first one we did. So, by the time we did “Machine Gun Kelly”, we were getting to be pretty pro with that thing. Why? Are you digging it?
Rick: I was pretty impressed with Acapella (software), and you guys were like, the timing was great, the sonics were really polished. It’s just like being there. I was really impressed with that.
And after the updates, it seemed to hold a lot better, as per sound and picture synching up. That latency was pretty much gone. It was pretty cool.
Rick: Since we’ve had this COVID-19 virus, people are trying to come up with different ways to do live music, as you may know and there are a couple drive-ins here in Virginia that are starting to do live shows, where people are stuck in their cars, but they can still hear.
Waddy Wachtel: I was really optimistically surprised by that idea. It’s funny that a form of entertainment that became completely obsolete, is going to become the new venue. It’s wild.
Rick: It’s pretty amazing. I’m in Reston, Virginia, and I hosted a driveway concert. Reston’s near Wolf Trap, a large venue.
Waddy Wachtel: I’ve heard of it. I only know the towns that put on shows. You know what I mean? I’ve been all over the place, but unless there’s a major concert I’ve done there, I don’t know the town.
Rick: What do you think you guys are going to be doing in the future, assuming this goes on for a year or two, hopefully not. What type of things do you think you might be able to do creatively to do live shows, if you can?
Waddy Wachtel: That’s a big if. I really can’t say at this point. The next thing we’re looking at is being able to do a streamed concert. That’s the primary thing, because there are none. It’s going to be impossible to play to an actual arena or even a club. There’s no crowd. You can’t have a crowd. So, basically, what’s the term? Oh yeah, fucked. Yeah. We’re fucked.
Rick: Everybody I know in the music arena here, we’ve all lost our gigs. They’re gone.
Waddy Wachtel: If it’s small or large, you can’t put any crowds together, so we’re all in the shit.
Rick: Yeah, it’s pretty nasty. Let’s talk guitars a little bit. Oh, wait a minute. You guys did do a cruise though, didn’t you?
Waddy Wachtel: Yeah, we did.
Rick: How was that?
Waddy Wachtel: I never envisioned myself ever doing a cruise, but it was actually enjoyable. We went over very well. People really dug us. So, because of that, it was great. They were lovely folks, and it went well, because a lot of people didn’t know who we were.
So, after we played, people were coming up to us and going, “Well, I just want you guys to know you’re my favorite act on the whole cruise. You guys are the shit.” It was fun. Like I said, I never thought I’d be on the ocean blue playing music.
Waddy Wachtel: Oh, really?
Rick: Yeah, yeah. Nokie and all those guys. Okay, let’s talk about guitars a little bit. What are you playing now? I know that you’ve got a few Les Pauls and stuff, but what do you have at home that you play with?
Waddy Wachtel: Well, I just happen to have a few Les Pauls here at home, but I also have, well I have my original Strat, which is a ’57.
Rick: Oh yeah, cool.
Waddy Wachtel: That’s the Road Worn Strat, which is a great series Fender made a couple of years ago, the Road Worn Series, the ’50s Strat and Tele, and the basses are beautiful too.
That Strat is so very much like my real one it’s incredible.
Rick: Yeah. The ’57 was a great year.
Waddy Wachtel: I’ve got other electrics, but I wind up basically on the Pauls or the Fenders. I have a D’Angelico here I used on something the other day. I’ve got a Duesenberg.
Aside from that, electric wise, let me look around the wall here. I guess basically, Les Paul, Tele, Les Paul, Strat, Danelectro Baritone, and I’ve got a lot of acoustics hanging around.
Steve Postell and Waddy Wachtel with their Rockbridge guitars – Photo: Courtesy of Rockbridge Guitar Company.
Rick: Yeah, what do you go for as far as noodling around on acoustic when you want to write songs.
Waddy Wachtel: Well, I have several J-200s which for me has always been the best acoustic, but I’ve got some lovely other ones. This great luthier in Japan made us some really beautiful little parlor size guitars, really nice guitars, and I’ve got a Rockbridge. Have you heard of Rockbridge?
Rick: No, I haven’t.
Waddy Wachtel: Rockbridge is basically a bluegrass guitar maker, and they made me a really beautiful copy of a Roy Smeck style body.
Jackson Browne discovered these Smeck guitars and has been using them for decades now.
Rick: A J-45?
Waddy Wachtel: No, no, it’s not a 45. Roy Smeck originally was a Hawaiian lap steel acoustic guitar.
Rick: That’s right. Yeah.
Waddy Wachtel: Fat bodied acoustic, big thick thing. And, Jackson fell in love with them and had it converted to a playable form, put a regular neck on it.
They sound great. And so, that’s a favorite too. But, it’s the J-200 and J-45. There’s always a J-45, a practical guitar, great for so many things. But, I have that, and I’ve got a nice gut string from Taylor. I have my Everly Brothers, no no no….not my … what do you call it?
Rick: The J-180?
Waddy Wachtel: It’s my Buddy Holly guitar. A couple of years ago, I was the musical director for a show, 75th birthday of Buddy’s. And, The Buddy Holly Educational Foundation, was giving these guitars to some of the selected artists and I became obnoxiously apparent about wanting one.
So, I have a beautiful relationship with them, the organization is fantastic. The Buddy Holly Foundation is headed by an incredible man named Peter Bradley, and his son, Peter Junior, but also Buddy’s wife, his widow.
Rick: Oh, really.
Waddy Wachtel: Maria Elena is still here and very much a part of the educational foundation. And, they’ve given out a lot of guitars. They’re beautiful and each one is handmade, copies of a J-45. And, some were made by Rick Turner, mine was made by a truly great luthier named Dan Roberts. And also, they make, remember Elvis’ guitar had that hand tooled leather piece around?
Rick: Yeah. He and Ricky Nelson both have those.
Waddy Wachtel: And so did Buddy. So, each one of the guitars has one of those beautiful overs on them and you had to name the guitar, a Buddy Holly song, so mine is, “Words of Love”. It’s a beauty.
Rick: It’s a nice tribute to Buddy Holly, wow.
Waddy Wachtel: And, the first series of them has an actual fret from Buddy’s guitar inside it. It’s really quite special.
Waddy Wachtel: L-00. I don’t know what that is.
Rick: L-O-O. Oh man, it’s probably one of the best Gibsons I’ve ever played. It was a kid’s guitar, but they used really good wood, so they used spruce from Michigan and the mahogany back, sides, but that’s my go-to guitar. That’s the one I almost always go to, but I’ve also got the 1946 J-45, which is brilliant.
And, I just got a 1964 J-200 which has the extra brace on the top, because they didn’t want the top to bow at all. And so, they put that in and it seems to have a muffled sound, so it’s not as loud as the other two. The L-00 is really loud. (Editor’s Note: Waddy’s on-line to check them out.)
Waddy Wachtel: It’s a cool looking axe, that’s nice. I think Robert Johnson played one.
Rick: Robert Johnson actually played Kalamazoos, because he couldn’t afford, I guess, a Gibson. But, in that photo that you see of him all the time, that’s a borrowed ’26 Gibson L-0 or L-1, that has the round bottom. But, check out the L-00’s, they’re amazing, the early 12-fretters.
Waddy Wachtel: I’m looking at them right now.
Rick: Yeah, and the ’31s, 1931 is what I’ve got. People are asking six grand for them, and they were kids’ guitars that sold for 25 bucks back in 1931. So, they’ve gone up a bit. But, of all those guitars, actually all the guitars I’ve got, that’s the one I’ve got that I grab. But, I’m looking at the J-45 right now, and I’ve got the ’64 J200.
I just got that three weeks ago, and I’ve only had it out a couple times. But, it plays a little bit, I wouldn’t say muffled, but it’s more suppressed. So, a lot of people take that brace out and then it opens it up, but I’m not sure I want to do that.
Waddy Wachtel: That’s funny. The first time I ever saw a J-200 was on the cover of Bob Dylan’s Nashville Skyline album.
I just remember looking at that, and going, “What is that? What kind of guitar is that?” And then, we had just moved to California. I think it was 1968. Studio Instrument Rentals, SIR, they opened and they were a rental company only, Studio Instrument Rentals, literally. They didn’t have rehearsal studios yet.
Actually, it was my manager that suggested to them they make these two empty rooms into rehearsal rooms. On the wall, one day, was that guitar, sunburst, just like the one on the cover. And there it was, this curvy looking big thing, and I went, “Oh my God. Let me see that thing.”
And, Dolph [Rempp] handed it to me and I was playing it, and I went, “I got to buy this. I got to have this.” And he goes, “No man, we don’t sell guitars. We rent them.” And I said, “You’re selling this one.” And, I bought it. And then I learned, after having it for a while, but what I was going to say was, it must have that bracing in it, because it’s a very dark sounding axe.
Rick: Yeah, what year is it?
Waddy Wachtel: I have a blonde J-200 that’s screams loud, beautiful, and a black one that’s loud too. The old original one is very subdued sounding.
Rick: Do you know what year it is?
Waddy Wachtel: Well, I got it in ’68, so I think it was probably new then.
Rick: The one that’s on Nashville Skyline, was owned by George Harrison, I think, and he gave it to Dylan. If you go to my website, Guitar International, one of the top front page articles is by Elliot Landy, who took the picture of Bob with that.
Waddy Wachtel: Oh really?
Rick: What I like about it is the neck is like a Telecaster. I don’t like big necks, chunky necks, and it’s beautiful.
Waddy Wachtel: The neck on mine is like a jazz neck. It’s very thin, very small.
I don’t dig that. And, I have small hands, but I like to be able to flop my fingers around a little, not to be quite as proper. I have to be really careful on that one. Whereas, my yellow natural color J-200, has a wider neck and so does my black one. That’s a very comfortable neck for me.
That thing (The sunburst J-200) is so dark that when I’ve started doing sessions, I bring this thing, I play it, they go, “Do you have another one?” “No, this is all I have.” He says, “I can’t get a sound of that one.” “What do you mean?” He goes, “It’s all too tubby and dark.” “Oh yeah? Well, it sounds good to me. And so, why don’t you put a microphone right by my ear, because it sounds good here.” So they did, and he goes, “Holy son of a bitch, you’re right.”
Rick: Yeah, they’re great guitars.
Waddy Wachtel and Leland Sklar – Photo credit: Jeff Fasano
Waddy Wachtel: But, he put the mic up where my ear was, where it sounded good. It wasn’t all tubby.
Rick: That’s interesting. Yeah. I’ll have to play mine some more. Obviously, I’ve been doing some other things. I haven’t had a chance to get to it. But, try an old L-00, and the 12-fret are the best ones to get. They came out with a 12-fret to the neck. About a year after that, they made a 14-fret to the neck guitar. Most people like the 12-fretters, and so that’s why they’re so expensive, I guess. But, it is so loud, that I can play somewhere and I’ll mic my voice, but I won’t mic the guitar because it still almost overcomes my voice.
Waddy Wachtel: The double O?
Rick: The double O, L-00, yeah.
Waddy Wachtel: Someone ought to drop one off for me.
Rick:. So, your Les Pauls, what years do you have? You’ve got a ’60, I think?
Waddy Wachtel: ’60 yeah. I have a ’60 and I forget what the other one is. Oh, a ’60 and the white one that I use a lot now is, I’d say is a ’71 or ’73, possibly. It’s a beauty. It’s very good.
Rick: Yeah. Have you ever played any very early ones? I had a ’52 with P-90s. The P-90s are monsters, but the bridge was horrible.
Waddy Wachtel: It’s horrible, and I don’t like the necks on any of them except the ’60. I don’t like that baseball bat feeling.
The ’60’s neck is so wide across and so thin from top to bottom. It’s just right in your hand, especially the guitar the I bought from Steve Stills in ’68. That guitar, the neck is invisible in your hand. It’s unbelievable.
Rick: That was 350 bucks, right, is what it cost you?
Waddy Wachtel: That’s correct. I don’t remember how I paid for it, because I certainly didn’t have $350, but I managed to wrangle it out of somebody.
“You’re the One” (1973), Waddy backed by Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham.
Rick: Hey, and you grew up in New York, right?
Waddy Wachtel: Yes.
Rick: Okay. So, you were in New York, and you know Leslie West, you must be familiar with The Vagrants.
Waddy Wachtel: I taught Leslie West how to play.
Rick: Oh really. I didn’t know that.That’s wild.
Waddy Wachtel: I grew up in a town called Jackson Heights, but I moved with my dad and my brother to a place called Forest Hills.
And, in Forest Hills, we lived in a building that was an apartment building on one side, an awning that stretched across and connected to another building. So, these two buildings faced each other in this little courtyard. And, seven, eight stories high, I guess.
So, we lived in one building, and I was basically a truant. So, I was always home. I was learning tunes or I was, whatever I was doing, smoking cigarettes, learning songs and playing guitar. And one day, I went downstairs to get a soda or something like that at the little liquor store on the corner, and I heard somebody plinking away on a guitar, and I went, “What? There’s a guitar player in this building?”
So, I went into the other building and got in the elevator and went from floor to floor until I found my way to the right door. I heard the guitar coming out of this apartment. I knocked on the door, and this guy answered the door, and I went, “Are you playing guitar in here.” And he said, “Yeah.”
And I went, “Oh, okay. Well, my name is Bobby Wachtel and I can help you. You need help. Because, I play guitar, and I can teach you some stuff.” So, Leslie and I became brothers instantly. I was always at their apartment or he and his brother Larry were always back and forth in the two apartments, and I played drums for the Vagrants, until we found their drummer, actually.
Rick: Did you really? I didn’t know that.
Waddy Wachtel: Yeah. So, I taught Leslie how to play and then after he got his legs under him, he started putting the band together. They put the band together with his brother Larry on bass and a guy named Jerry Storch, keyboards, and Peter Sabatino was the lead singer, but they didn’t have a drummer.
Yeah, so they didn’t have a drummer, so I said, “Well, I can play drums,” so I played drums till we found Roger (Mansour), who was their drummer, this really beautiful French guy named Roger. We did several gigs with me on drums. I don’t know. I wouldn’t wanted to have heard that back.
Rick: You know there’s a YouTube of the Vagrants back then, I don’t know if you’ve seen that or not.
Waddy Wachtel: No, I’m going to go look for it right now, though.
There’s Jerry [Storch]. Yeah, there’s Jerry. I see it right now.
Yeah, funny man, look at this. Unbelievable. Yeah, so Leslie and I are … he’s my brother.
Rick: On a lot of the songs I’ve heard, you get this signature sound. You’ve got this big fat sound and I was wondering on “Werewolves of London”, how do you get that? You’re not using any effects or anything, right? What are you doing with your amp and I guess the Les Paul.
Waddy Wachtel: I just plug it in and play man. It’s just the sound I get when I make noise, I guess. That’s what happens. I don’t use pedals, and I just usually use the Paul and either a Black Star amp or a Magnatone amp. Used to be, a long time ago, it was the Music Man.
Rick: Yeah, I remember those.
Waddy Wachtel: The 210 HDs, great little amps.
Really great amps. Used that all through the Linda (Ronstadt) days. But, then, I lived in my Marshall for a while and then went to the Black Stars, as a matter of fact, through Leslie. I heard some clip of Leslie playing, and I went, “What are you playing through, man? The tone is beautiful.” He goes, “Black Star.” So, I tried the Black Star amps and bought about three of them or so.
Now, I’ve gone on to Magnatones; making beautiful amps now. But, that’s just how I play. That’s it.
Rick: Must be in the fingers then, from the heart, I guess.
Waddy Wachtel: Yeah. I’m not doing anything except turning it up loud enough to be distorted and playing.
Waddy Wachtel: Yeah, when I really first started you mean?
I started with a terrible little guitar, that my father bought me…. and then after a year of lessons, he bought me my first real guitar, a beautiful Gibson L-7.
Rick: Yeah, nice. So, what was your first acoustic, a Silvertone or something?
Waddy Wachtel: It was called a Kamico. You can still find them around. If you do a search for them, you can find them.
Rick: Yeah. I’ll look them up. When I was a kid, I got a Silvertone from my parents, and I could barely play it because the strings were so high and then you had those old Black Diamond strings that were like, I don’t know, they were thick. Before we got what we used to call rock and roll strings, which were probably nines, nines or 10s, I guess. Do you remember those days?
Waddy Wachtel: Oh, nines and 10s, I use 11’s now.
I can’t use nines, and they used to be flat wounds too. Look at this… here’s a Kamico. Hey, look at this, this is a Kamico. I see one. Oh wow.
Rick: Are you on Ebay?
Waddy Wachtel: No, I’m just on Google. Oh, I see, Kay Kamico that’s what it is. Kay must have bought them out or something. They were not great or even good guitars.They were terrible.
Rick: That’s funny.
Waddy Wachtel: I’m looking at these couple of different ones, but it was a terrible guitar. But, it was my guitar and I was nine years old and there I was, finally. I’d been asking my dad for one for years, he finally got it for me, so I was thrilled.
Rick: The first bass player I worked with, we had a garage band back in ’64 or ’65 and he had this huge big Kay bass. It was an amazing time to be young. You had the Beatles. Who inspired you? The Beatles or who really got you going?
Waddy Wachtel: Well, I was playing long before the Beatles came out. I was inspired when I was a child. I thought everybody was like me. I thought everybody would be able to sing whatever they heard. You know what I mean? What I heard, I was able to learn it and sing it. And, I was always listening, Music always had my ear, had my heart. It always had me.
You grow up, you think, “Well gee, everybody must be Jewish, because I’m Jewish. Everyone must eat the same things we eat because that’s what we’re eating. Everybody must feel the same way that I do about music.” I realized shortly after it, wow, these guys don’t know music and that guy can’t sing and that guy can’t sing.
So, I was young when I saw a guitar on television and I said, “Mom, whatever that is, that’s what I want.” And, she said, “That’s a guitar.” “A what? A guitar?” I said, “Okay, that’s what I want. That’s what I’m going to do.” And, they questioned it severely, but that was it, I was five years old.
So, I finally got a guitar. I’d hear instrumental music, I’d hear a melody and I’d be singing it.
Then, I’d start imitating singers when I was a kid. I’d hear a singer I liked, so I’d learn the song and try to sing it like he was singing it, and stuff like that. So, music had me as a baby.
Rick: Interesting. Well, when you were five and six years old, it was like Louis Jordan and bluesy, rhythm and blues stuff.
Waddy Wachtel: No, it wasn’t even that. It was just Arthur Godfrey talent show. What was it? Name That Tune, and straight music really up until … there wasn’t really blues, I didn’t get blues until later, but I got Doo Wop. I lived in New York City. The first rock and roll thing I remember, aside from the amazing Doo Wop stuff and black group rock and roll records on the radio was Carl Perkins, “Blue Suede Shoes”.
Rick: Yeah, okay, that would’ve been about ’55 or ’56.
Waddy Wachtel: Carl Perkins. It was “Blue Suede Shoes”, and it was driving me crazy those sounds, those electric guitar sounds would just make me go insane when I heard them.
There was a song called “Whispering Bells” by a group called The Del Vikings. It’s a Doo Wop tune, but it’s up tempo and it has just this one chord, six minor, four chord, five chord.
And the way it’s played and the sound, it sounds like a Stratocaster on treble. I just about lost my mind. When that guitar started playing, I couldn’t think of anything else about it, except that. Heaven opened up for me. I’d hear guitars and I’d go out of my mind.
Rick: Yeah. Some of that early music, it was pretty amazing. I should be doing an interview soon with Dick Holler who wrote, “Abraham, Martin and John”. He was into rock and roll in the very early ’60s and he did this song called, shoot, what’s it called? “Double Shot”, which a group called the Swinging Medallions made famous.
Waddy Wachtel: Of My Baby’s Love.
Rick: Yeah, that’s right! But, if you listen to the riff in his 1961 song, it’s the same riff that you hear in “96 Tears”, by ? and the Mysterians.
Waddy Wachtel: Yeah, da, da, da, da. (Waddy sings the organ riff)
Rick: And, it’s a great song still. I was also watching the YouTube with I think his name is Roky Erickson with 13th Floor Elevators.
Waddy Wachtel: I don’t know much of them.
Rick: They did, “You’re Going To Miss Me”, which had a real, it had a really weird sound to it. But, I was watching this video of you playing with The Immediate Family, I think. Keith Allison was in it.
Waddy Wachtel: I know Keith very well, but it wouldn’t have been The Immediate Family, it would’ve been my Waddy Wachtel Band. What’s the song?
Rick: It’s called “You’re Going To Miss Me”.
Rick: And, it’s a black and white video. It’s probably from the old show, Where the Action Is.
Waddy Wachtel: They were around back then? Oh yeah, ’66. Look at that, American Bandstand, “You’re Going To Miss Me”. Wow.
Rick: Give it a quick listen. I’ll listen too. It’s a great song. [Waddy and I listen to the video playing.]
Waddy Wachtel: Oh yeah, let’s see. It is, it’s like a “Hey Joe” kind of thing. I can’t believe these guys were around then. Wow. Cool.
Rick: Keith was great and he was with Paul Revere and The Raiders, later I think.
Waddy Wachtel: He was America’s Paul McCartney and he’s still great.
Rick: That’s right. Yeah. Yeah, he was cool. He was cool. Freddy Cannon and all those guys and Paul Revere and the Raiders were terrific, as well. I don’t think people appreciate them as much as they should these days.
Waddy Wachtel: They were really good.
Rick: Let’s see where we are here. So, I thought we’d go on tangents. So, how did you meet Warren Zevon and I think I read he introduced you to the Cowsills, or was it Jackson Browne?
Waddy Wachtel: No, no. He introduced me to Jackson. I knew the Cowsills before I moved to California. I met Warren because I was told that the Everly Brothers needed a guitar player, and as soon as I was told that I said, “Well, that’s my gig. I know every guitar part. I know every lyric, both harmony, both vocal parts. What do I do?” “Call this guy Sandy, Sandy Zevon, and set up an audition.”
“We’ll play the song and then you’ll play.” Okay, fine. So, they went through the first one, doing “Bye, Bye Love”, some shitty arrangement of it. Okay, I played it. They said, “Okay, that’s good.” Okay, next was “Bird Dog” or something. I know it, I know it, next, next, next. “Okay you know all these?”, ” Yeah, I told you I know them.” Then, they got to the song, “Walk Right Back”, you know that song?
Rick: Yeah, I know it, yeah.
Waddy Wachtel: Okay. So, that has that beautiful guitar fingering on it and when they played it, Warren is playing it not quite right on the piano. And, I’m thinking, “I know it, I know this guy. He doesn’t like me already.”
Rick: You’re going to correct him.
Waddy Wachtel: Wrong. This is going to not go over very well.
And so, that’s exactly what happened, and he goes, “What do you mean I’m doing it wrong? I’m the musical director.” Well, that might be, but it goes like this, and, I played it, and then the bass player, Bob Knigge his name is, who’d been with the Everly’s a long time, he goes, “Hey yeah, that’s right. That’s how it goes.” Warren really was pissed off at me then.
And so, we did a few more tunes and he finally says, “Well, look, I’m pretty sure you’ll get the job, because you know all the songs,” but I had a huge beard then. Not like Leland, but a big beard. And he goes, “You’re going to have to shave that beard off.” And I went, “What? What are you talking about?”
I said, “Hey man, if one of the Everly Brothers tells me to shave my beard off, I’ll do it in a second. But, you? I’d do it for you? I don’t know who you are.” I said, “By the way, where are the Everly Brothers anyway?”
Why aren’t they here? And he goes, “Well, they’re making their records. They’re making an album.” I went, “Well, what kind of band are you? You’re not in the studio with them? What the fuck is this?” And so, that was another annoyance, meeting Warren. So anyway, he called me to tell me I got the job, nonetheless.
Rick: Cool. Wow.
Waddy Wachtel: And then, we went on the road and we always had an oil and water relationship, although we loved each other dearly. We argued about a lot of stuff, music, a lot of musical arguments.
We were very locked in to each other musically at the same time, and I could hear his tunes.What I mean is I could hear the way they should go, that’s why when Jackson [Browne] asked me to co-produce Excitable Boy. Excitable Boy turned out to be a very tight record, basically Warren and I knew each other so well.. musically and personally.
I knew how the song should go. So, it worked very well and we were thrilled about it.
Rick: Yeah. I think I still have my original album from the ’70s, and I pretty much wore it out.
Waddy Wachtel: Good for you man.
Waddy Wachtel: It was a very good album. Envoy was another … after Excitable Boy, he went off on his own. He didn’t hire me to do the next record, which I got very upset about and it didn’t do anything. And, it was a flop, as the next one.
And when they started to do The Envoy, they called me and asked me to come play on something, and I said, “I will only come play on something if I co- produce with you. I’m not coming to fucking play on a song and watch you do another flop album.”
Here I come, co-produce it, or forget it. So, he said, “Okay, okay.” So, I went out and I played on the song “Looking for the Next Best Thing”.
Rick: Oh, yeah. That’s a great song too.
Waddy Wachtel: That’s the first one I did for them on that album. And I remember when I did the solo on that, which is a one take solo, Warren was just standing there watching me going, “Fuck man. This is what we need, man. That’s it.” They kept the track, so I put the rhythm part on and the lead and it was a very happy night. Let’s put it that way.
Rick: So, he was a friend.
Waddy Wachtel: Oh yeah. No, we were very close. Like I said, we had very different musical opinions about a lot of things, but we always agreed on the Stones. Let’s put it that way.
We agreed on the Stones and Merle Haggard, and we spent every night on the road singing and playing. When we went out on that year’s tour that I did with the Everlys, we were in the room every night singing away, man. It was incredible, amazing tour.
Donald and Phillip were in the room with us almost every night singing. Try to imagine The Everly Brothers, in your hotel room singing. It was…
Rick: Incredible.
Waddy Wachtel: Spectacular! Not to be believed.
Rick: Yeah. I met Phil at NAMM in Nashville, he was such a gentleman, was just really an honor to meet him.
Waddy Wachtel: Phil was a doll. Donald’s a little tougher nut to crack. Donald is the sweetest in the world too, but he’s a little tougher.
Rick: Along the way, who were your mentors? You worked with people like Lou Adler and people who had been around and doing a lot of stuff. Did anybody become a mentor to you, or did you … There’s different ways to have mentors.
Waddy Wachtel: Well, I did what I do and there was a producer. Before I got to Lou, actually, I worked for a man name Nick Venet. Nick Venet was a hot producer in town, and he produced the first Beach Boys album (Surfin’ Safari – Capitol – 1962).
He produced Linda’s (Linda Ronstadt) Stone Poney’s album.
Anyway, a friend of mine introduced me to Nick, and I played for him in the studio and he really liked what I was doing, so he started hiring me a lot.
Sadly, we were working on a lot of folky kind of albums, so I was down to playing a lot of acoustic for him.
And finally one night, I showed up to work and he pulled me aside and he said, “Listen Waddy, it’s time you move on.” And, I really thought he meant he was firing me. “What’s the matter? What did I do? What do you mean?”
And he goes, “No man, no, no. It’s time you move on from what we’re doing here.” He says, “You’re better than what I’m having you do here, and you need to move into another circle.”
And at that point, David Foster had just moved to LA.. He was the hot shot guy in town, and Nick said, “I’ve invited this new guy named Dave Foster, the piano player, he’s coming down and playing on the session tomorrow night, and I want you to bring your amp and I want you to play electric tomorrow night.” And, I hadn’t played electric for him in about a year. So, he said, “Bring your stuff. I want him to hear you play slide. I want to hear you play electric and everything.”
So, we had a great night session and a few days later, maybe two days at the most, three at the most, my phone rang and it was a secretary for Lou Adler’s office. Lou wants me to come to a session at A&M on Friday and play for I think it was Tim Curry.
So, I went to that session and that’s where and Russell (Kunkel) and I met, Leland (Sklar) had already met. And, I knew Foster already, but I hadn’t met Kootch. Danny (Kortchmar) and I hadn’t met yet. We met on that session.
Rick: The Tim Curry session?
Waddy Wachtel: Tim Curry, yeah. So, we met and we liked each other right away. And then, when Lou said it was a reggae tune we were going to do, Danny and I both went, “Oh man, reggae.” We looked at each other. I said, “Oh, you love reggae?” He goes, “Oh, yeah man.”
So, it was The Harder They Come, that movie had just came out. Warren and myself and my friend Jorge Calderon, that’s all we were listening to. We couldn’t get enough of it. And, Danny was the same way, so we bonded heavily right away.
And, then Lou kept hiring me and we did the Tim record. Then, we did a Peter Allen record, and then on to Carole (King). Peter Asher saw me playing with Carole, and Peter hired me. And, it just started going like that.
Mentoring, you learn from … I never had anybody mentoring me, really. I learned every song that I know by ear.
I had a really good guitar teacher [Gene Dell] when I was a kid, nine years old. At 16 years old, I was taking lessons from a great jazz player named Sal Salvador, if you remember that name.
Rick: I know the name.
Waddy Wachtel: Sal was a beautiful jazz guitar player and he was giving lessons and I approached him and he took me on. So, I studied with him and I learned what I could there. In the meantime, though, I was listening to The Beatles and the Stones and Bob Dylan and learning every song I could hear. That’s all I would do, is learn everything.
Rick: Yeah. What about the business side of it though?
Waddy Wachtel: Well, that came later. I moved to California, started doing sessions, didn’t really need any help yet … you go down to your union, you pick up your check, and that was it for a while. The Everly brothers were paying me $250 a week, so there wasn’t that much to do. There wasn’t all that much to deal with really. I was living rent free, fortunately.
But then, when I started working for Linda (Ronstadt) … the Everly gig was short money, but Linda’s gig was actual money. And at that moment, at that point, I was told, “You got to get an accountant. You need an accountant, because you’re not going to be able to handle this,” and they were right. And, I got an accountant. I was with him for a little while and it wasn’t right. I met Nick Ben-Meir and I’ve been with my business manager now for probably 36 or 37 years. It’s the same wonderful guy.
Pulled me through everything. I’ve had lean periods where I didn’t know how I was going to feed us and Nick’s been there the whole time. And so, that’s how I got through the business point of it. Once we got through … we’d need a lawyer, we’d get to find a music business lawyer. So, that was my team.
And then, I had Peter Asher managing me for a while and someone else managing me for a while, but when you’re a studio player, back then, I didn’t have a manager. You didn’t need a manager. You were getting phone calls. You were getting phone calls every day.
Rick: So, that was work for hire? So, you didn’t get royalties or anything? How did that work?
Waddy Wachtel: Yeah, you didn’t get royalties. It was work for hire. Royalties came when you wrote a song or if the artist was to share points with the band.
It was different producing. But, playing, you are just working for the check.
Rick: Yeah. So, when you’re … that’s interesting how that works. So, when you’re in a studio, what do you look for as far as being a good studio. Is it the feel of a studio, or is it the equipment or is it the guys and the women that you’re working with? What do you look for?
Waddy Wachtel: Well, it’s all of the above. A studio can look like a dump, but can sound great. Or, a studio can look beautiful and sound horrible. And there’s combinations of both, where … you look for first of all, the engineer makes the big difference.
In there, knowing how to mic things is the whole ball game. And, you just look for the equipment. Again, you can have shit equipment if you know how to use it. So, it’s hard to gauge that.
But, in Los Angeles, there was a certain standard. Every studio had a 3M machine, and then they had a Studer 24 track. The equipment was, it’s ultimately important. The Pultec equalizers and the API limiters and the microphones. It’s the selection of microphones. First of all, you’re looking at a microphone, you know if it’s a good mic or not. Someone taught me a good thing once. Microphones sound the way they look, someone said to me.
Rick: Really.
Waddy Wachtel: It’s kind of true. It really is. If you look at a skinny mic, it’s going to be a skinny sound. A big fat mic is going to be a fat sound. And, there are variations of course, within all that, but as a rule of thumb, you get an idea, that mic’s not going to work. That’s not going to do it. Give me that one. That’s a better mic for, a Telefunken, Neuman’s, two microphones. But, it’s the engineer that makes all the difference.
Waddy Wachtel: You can set up a band all in one room and mic it correctly, and there’ll be no leakage. Each one will still be clean. When we did Linda’s [Ronstadt] records or James’s (Taylor) records, we were all in the same room. All the amps were in the one room.
They’re small amps. And, they were right near the piano. The piano had piano blankets all over it and stuff like that, so the piano was clean. The guitars were clean, drums were clean. It doesn’t have to be a great looking room.
Rick: Yeah. I read that Eric Clapton uses a little Champion amp in the studio, or used to.
Waddy Wachtel: Champ.
Rick: Yeah, a Fender Champ.
Waddy Wachtel: So, when I worked with the Stones on the Bridges to Babylon, it was an amp about the size of this telephone I’m looking at. Little, tiny little Fender amp about a foot by foot square. It is loud. Far out.
Waddy offered up some licks, along with Keith Richards and Ron Wood on “Too Tight”.
Rick: Oh, that’s wild. I’ve got this little Vox amp. You can run it with a battery, so I used it for some places I play where they don’t have electricity. Yeah, those little amps, this one has got two eight inch speakers in it. It sounds terrific.
Waddy Wachtel: Actually, I’m using this tiny little Black Star. It’s got tubes in it and it’s pretty cool. It’s really small.
I’m mic-ing that and just using that in the studio here. And, I’ve got a beautiful 1×12. I used tens also. That was a large part of my sound for a long time, tens.
For all the Ronstadt records, I’m playing it through them for the “Dice” [“Tumbling Dice”] and “Poor Pitiful Me”, those solos and everything, “It’s So Easy”. It’s all that little 210HD. Really good sound. One microphone on one speaker, usually a 57 (Shure SM57).
I’m back to using a 57 to everything right now basically.
Rick: I’m using a 57 and a 58 sometimes.
Waddy Wachtel: Yeah, I’m singing in it, everything. I’m using it for everything lately.
Rick: Yeah, they’re the standard. So, you mentioned that you were listening to some music back in the ’50s and ’60s and Carl Perkins. Who else were you listening to in the ’50s?
Waddy Wachtel: Well, it wasn’t a lot. There was rock and roll on the radio. Bill Doggett, “Honky Tonk”, Bill Doggett. There wasn’t that much of it, and the Champs finally came out with “Tequila”.
I think the Ventures didn’t happen till the ’60s, right?
Rick: Yeah, I don’t think they were doing anything until about ’63, maybe ’64. I know they were doing stuff in ’64.
Waddy Wachtel: They were before ’64. They were way before The Beatles.
Rick: And Dick Dale was right around what, the ’50s when the Beach Boys were really young.
Waddy Wachtel: Dick Dale was, I think early ’60s too. Yeah, I was all over “Misirlou” like crazy.
Rick: Oh, man. He played loud. Did you ever see him live?
Waddy Wachtel: I didn’t, no.
Rick: Man, he had this gold sparkly Stratocaster and he played really loud. And, he kept that guitar, I think for his whole life. A lot of us, we’re buying all these guitars and he has this one guitar and that’s it. That’s his stage guitar, I guess. So, pretty wild.
Waddy Wachtel: I would still be using my ’60 Les Paul if it wasn’t so fucking valuable. I’m not allowed to take it out of the house.
Rick: It became an investment over time.
Waddy Wachtel: Yeah. It sure did.
Gibson’s Waddy Burst Les Paul
Rick: Nobody is playing guitar on the radio, but it seems to me like guitars are starting to come back. I’m not sure about the electric guitars, if they’re quite as hyped as they were. I know they’re not as much as they were in the ’60s and ’70s.
Waddy Wachtel: I think the ’60 Les Paul still retains its value.
Rick: Yeah. You get to the ’58, ’59, ’60 and yeah, they’re still up there.
When we were talking Warren earlier, it reminded me when I was trying to emulate Warren and so I had this lyric line that I was driving with a bag of chips and Frito-Lays. And, I got that from his Pioneer Chicken Stand words on, I think, was it Carmelita?
Waddy Wachtel: It sure is.
Rick: We pick up stuff from our heroes, I suppose.
Waddy Wachtel: We pick up stuff from everyone, don’t we?
Rick: Yeah, well that’s true. That’s true. That brings me to obscure musicians. Folks like, I don’t know if you’ve heard them or not, but Tim Buckley, Jimmy Spheeris, Nick Drake, Judy Sill, have you heard those names?
Waddy Wachtel: Buckley, yeah, of course.
I don’t know. You’ve got rock and roll, it’s a different thing. In the folk realm, there’s a lot of guys that I’ve not heard of. In rock and roll, you either get over, you get across, or you’re not heard of. I can’t think of recent…there’s a great singer, songwriter named Willie Nile, you know Willie?
Rick: His name sounds familiar, but I don’t know him off hand, but I’ll write his name down.
Waddy Wachtel: Yeah. And write down this title, “Forever Wild”. It’s a great song. I heard it on the radio, and when I got home, I had this smile on my face, and this is recently. This is recent. Through the years, I don’t have any … I’m more of a group listening guy.
But, there was a band called the Left Banke, do you remember the Left Banke?
Rick: Yeah. Was it “Walk Away Renee”?
Waddy Wachtel: “Walk Away Renee”, yeah.
Rick: Yeah, and they did “Pretty Ballerina”, I think.
Waddy Wachtel: Gorgeous song.
Rick: Yeah. Those are “go to” songs. And, Brown, I think his name is Mike Brown, he was the composer when he was 16 years old.
Waddy Wachtel: I know. And, his dad was the one who arranged everything and orchestrated it.
Rick: Oh, I didn’t know that. Just brilliant, brilliant songs.
Waddy Wachtel: Did he die?
Rick: Yeah. Mike did. Mike Brown died.
Waddy Wachtel: He was losing his mind. He was going crazy.
Rick: Oh really. I didn’t know that.
Waddy Wachtel: But, he was brilliant, and there was another song they did. I’m glad you know “Ballerina”. It’s such a beautiful song … I’ve been playing that song lately. It just got in my head the other day. Had to figure it out, had to figure out those changes in the middle, the whole orchestration part.
There’s another song they had called “Desiree”, did you ever hear that one?
Rick: I don’t know that one. I’ll write it down though.
Waddy Wachtel: Look that one up. That was the third single, and it didn’t make it. It made it a little bit on the east coast while I was still there, and it’s much more of an up-tempo rock and roll, even though it’s very classical, it has this release in it where the orchestra plays this fantastic figure. It’s just great. I think you’ll really dig it.
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