John Oates Interview: Hall and Oates and Beyond

By: Geoff Byrd

John Oates Photo Credit: Phil Konstantin

I met John Oates in 2005, backstage after my first show with Hall and Oates at the Greek Theater in Los Angeles. I was the opening act and relatively unknown, under the radar, which I didn’t mind at all for a couple of reasons. In fact, I kind of like it that way. But, I was more nervous than I’d been in years.

I was alone with my acoustic guitar facing a sea of Hall and Oates fans, who couldn’t wait to hear “Maneater,” and had to win over a crowd who didn’t even know there was an opening act. Hall and Oates were always one of my favorite artists, adding even more pressure.

So, I’m at the Greek freaking out, facing the audience, but luckily put on a show that was respectable, at least it seemed like the audience liked me. Afterward, because I’m a dork, I don’t go sell CDs and talk to cute ladies. Instead, I search out Daryl and John so I can find out who’s singing what background part in the bridge of “Private Eyes.”

There’s Oates, standing back stage right after I finished my set. “I dug that, man,” he said. “Do you want to write sometime with me?” Let’s just say I didn’t have a poker face to speak of. “Yeah man, let’s do it. I’m honored” I then asked him a bunch of stupid questions that he answered graciously.

He nonchalantly said, “Oh, I guess I better go on.” I watched from backstage and was blown away by the musicianship. It was like being back in a classic era where good songs and good vocals were all that mattered – not image, not light shows, not bit parts in movies or fashion lines. Hall and Oates may have had a cheesy video or two, but with these guys there’s no fluff. It’s all meat and potatoes.

Be forewarned. This interview is biased. After playing 50 shows opening for Hall and Oates and writing several songs with John, he has become a good friend, a collaborator and a mentor.

I realized while writing with John how underrated he is, like the New York Giants – underrated and over-talented. John’s the real deal. He’s a conduit to an era where it was all about the song and how it was played. He breathes that stuff and knows no other way. He loves music and even now, after worldwide popularity, he’s not at all jaded. And he’s smart. You wouldn’t want to try to slip in an ambiguous or disingenuous clause in a contract. He’ll catch it.

Daryl has long been the golden boy of Hall and Oates and is an amazing singer-songwriter who is a natural soul singer and a profound lyricist. But John Oates, the curly-haired Philly boy, is another formidable talent.

He has this way of placing a perfect lyric or melody into a song to give it teeth. He writes hooks and he writes them well. And John’s got charisma in spades. I’ve noticed that when he walks into a room, heads turn and by his very nature he commands respect. He also keeps himself fit by skiing regularly and his neighbors can watch him easily running up slopes in Aspen.

Another insight into John is that he’s got a great sense of humor and doesn’t take himself too seriously, something rare for a rock star of any era. Whenever I rode in the car with him on tour or in Aspen he always had a stand-up comedy station playing on XM radio. “It takes away the stress,” he said.

Hall and Oates have sold seven platinum and six gold albums over the course of their musical partnership with major hits like “She’s Gone,” “Maneater,” “I Can’t Go for That (No Can Do),” “Sarah Smile,” “Rich Girl,” “Out of Touch,” “You Make My Dreams,” and “Kiss On My List.” Before iTunes, MTV and reality TV, Hall and Oates produced hit after hit of solid R&B with enough pop to keep the flaxen-haired Hall and the mustachioed Oates at center stage in the world of popular music.

Click to Check Out the Hall and Oates Collection on Amazon.com

Night after night while opening for them, I was amazed at the large audiences they still drew and the phenomenal level of enthusiasm they generated from both their older fans and those of younger generations. The interview below gave me a chance to ask John some things I was curious about, but for some reason had never brought up in any of our previous conversations.

******

Geoff Byrd: I want to get into a few things that people might know about Hall and Oates, but they don’t know about John Oates. Many people know about your success in the ’80s, the Hall and Oates hit factory, and the millions of records sold. Not many know that you and Daryl have been touring for decades, never really stopping. Of all the years you have been touring, do you have any anecdotes that have burned into your memory?

John Oates: There have been so many that it’s hard to single out just one, but the one that stands out most in my mind was a crazy after show dinner that we had on our first tour of Australia in the early ’80s.

Daryl, our tour manager, our bass player Kenny Passarelli and I were sitting at dinner in a restaurant that they held open for us. The only other people there were the chef with his wife and brother sitting at another table across the room. We were in the middle of eating when to our shock and surprise a guy with a heavy long wool coat and ski mask bursts into the restaurant brandishing a sawed-off shotgun shouting, “Everybody put your money on the table! I ain’t fucking around!”

Being from New York, my first reaction was that this had to be some sort of record company prank and we all just sat there staring at him in disbelief. But, reality hit home quickly as he ran over to our table and started waving the old gun in our direction.

I remember our bass player’s girlfriend holding her hand up to her neck to try to hide the new string of pearls she had just bought in Japan the week before. My tour manager tried to hand the robber a credit card and the guy screamed, “I don’t want no bleedin’ plastic!” He took what little money we gave him. Luckily for us when we were on tour, especially in those days, we never carried much money because we always expected someone else would be paying for things.

So, the gunman then runs over to the other table where the chef was sitting and demanded the same from them. The chef’s wife took out her purse and opened it. As the robber bent down to look inside, the chef grabbed him by the collar and punched him in the face, knocking him backward toward the door.

At that moment I got up and rushed him, knocking him through the glass door just as a bunch of Melbourne police came up the steps. I recall holding my foot on his wrist while the cops grabbed the gun and arrested him. As it turned out he was an infamous criminal known as the Rusty Gun Bandit. The story was all over the newspapers and TV the next day.

Turned out to be a great way to kick off a tour. You can’t buy that kind of publicity.

Geoff: Yes, I would say that heroically saving a room full of people from a potential killer who happens to be a serial criminal is pretty damn rock ‘n’ roll. But you probably still don’t want to kick off every tour that way.

I know in addition to Hall and Oates you and Daryl both have solo careers and solo records. What are you passionate about these days? You have had a chance to pretty much do it all, so when you wake up in the morning, what project or projects motivate you now

John: We’ve decided to use this year to do some solo stuff. Daryl has a monthly show called Live from Daryl’s House, which is a series of Internet music broadcasts with a bunch of cool guests.

I’ve been on a real writing binge as of late and I don’t think I’ve ever been so prolific in my entire life. I have a bunch of new songs I’m about to record this March in Nashville. The album will be called 1000 Miles of Life and the songs are a collection of material that is very personal to me and chronicle a much more authentic and emotional side of my life.

I’m planning a very organic recording with some of the best musicians on the planet. People like Jerry Douglas, Bela Fleck, Jonathan Yudkin, Bekka Bramlette and I’ve even got the Blind Boys of Alabama to sing with me. Of course there are some familiar names like T-Bone Wolk, Jed Leiber and G.E. Smith.

I must say that I’m more excited about this project than anything I’ve ever done, maybe because the songwriting is so substantial and meaningful to me. This record will give me the chance to revisit and tap into some of my folk and blues roots which I haven’t really explored in a long time.

Geoff: I’m definitely going to take you up on that, man. The stuff I heard you sing on the phone the other day was stellar. Great melodies and very Beatlesque. I’m curious, Hall and Oates is not signed to a major label. When did you break with tradition and why did you decide to go independent?

John: We made our first indie album in 1996. It was called Marigold Sky. I think in many ways we were ahead of the curve in terms of where the traditional music business was headed. It took some time to put all the pieces in place. By the time we recorded Do It For Love we had created our own solar system of production, distribution and marketing.

After being in the business for so many years we knew we had to just do things our way and make music for our fans and not worry about charts, radio and fitting into the old model of artist-label relations. Of course, now with hard goods on the verge of extinction, it’s time to rethink the landscape again, something I’m very serious about with the pending release of my new solo album.

Geoff: You’re a very accomplished business person. In fact, you’re very hands-on with your career. Where do you think the industry is going these days and what recommendations do you have for up and coming artists? It seems like the best way to make money these days for a musician is through touring or publishing. Would you agree with that statement?

John: Well, if you’re fortunate enough to have a legacy and history of live performance, like H&O do, touring can be very rewarding on a number of levels. The fact that Daryl and I have always placed a lot of importance on staying involved with our fans through live shows is one of the reasons we are still vital after all these years.

However, at the core of everything we do are the songs. Without the writing there’s no foundation, so I would value the publishing side of our business highly. Copyrights are a songwriter’s most valuable asset and should be guarded and cherished.

Geoff: You, Jed Leiber and I had a chance to write songs together. It’s been one of the best collaborations of my career. I had a blast and I love the songs. It’s obvious you don’t have to write with other people. What makes you drawn to the collaborative process?

John: I love the collaborative process. It’s kind of like free psychotherapy in a way. Every songwriter bares his soul and shares something within them during the writing process. I enjoy the process of trying to create something from nothing. It’s like assembling a constantly morphing jigsaw puzzle.

Geoff: I was lucky enough to open for you guys for about 50 shows in the U.S. and Canada. I had the best time of my life. But beyond that, I was blown away and astonished with the fact that the majority of all the shows were totally sold out. This is not just hype or second hand journalism, or a reprinting of a press release. I was there and saw it for myself over and over again.

Hall and Oates were filling 10,000 seat venues like you did for a two night stand at the Mohican Sun in Connecticut. That was an amazing turnout. Has there been a revival of Hall and Oates of late? There’s a whole new generation being turned on to your music. At the Greek in L.A., I remember seeing punk haircuts, mohawks and they were totally into it. What do you attest this resurgence to?

John: I think it has a lot to do with hanging in there for all these years and also the tribute we’ve received from a lot of the hot new groups in the press. Gym Class Heroes, the Killers and many others letting their fans know how much our music influenced them. Not to mention that we have a great band and work our asses off every night at every show.

Geoff: Did you ever consider selling your signature mustache online or on eBay or something? Will you ever grow it back?

John: There is a whole new resurgence of interest in my stache. In fact, I just wrote the forward for a new book about the power of the mustache in pop history. The book is called: The Book of Bert and if you really want to know why I shaved my mustache you should read the forward. But in simple terms, that hair on my lip represented another life which I’ve left behind. No, I’ll never grow it again.

Geoff: Now I have to go read the book to find out. Staches aside, you’re a guy who’s been through it all and yet still remains humble and focused. I know you’re a really dedicated family man. Do you think they have been a steadying force in the whirlwind that is the music business?

John: The fact that I made a commitment to honor my family and realign my priorities is the main reason I’m still able to tour and make music. At one time music was the only thing in my life. Now it’s a part of my life. The career decisions I make now are based on what is good for my family.

Geoff: If you had a chance to work with anyone out there on a songwriting collaboration, who would it be?

John: Cole Porter. But I may have to wait a few years because I’m not quite ready for the great collaboration in the sky.

Geoff: I’ve always considered Hall and Oates to be timeless, even though there was a distinctive ’80s period sonically, and some heavy experimentation as far as production goes. Nonetheless, as you mentioned, you have been song driven and focused. You have crossed over into rock, R&B, pop, and even jazz and hip hop.

But the melodies have always been so strong. I put the H&O sound into a category with Elton John, ELO, the Beatles, Smokey Robinson and the Beach Boys. As a general umbrella term I call it “Classic Pop.” How do you see your legacy and does it even matter to you how people perceive you?

John: I’ve always felt that much of our production and recording innovations have been overlooked. If you go back to our early Atlantic albums produced by Arif Mardin we were experimenting with synthesizing natural instruments as early as 1972. From processing the soprano sax through the Arp 2600 on our Abandoned Luncheonette, up to being one of the first artists to use polyphonic sampling keyboards like the Fairlight and Synclavier on our early ’80s records. Oh, and don’t forget about our success using drum machines. We were the first to have a number one single using a drum machine, maybe.

Geoff: I feel the cool police sometimes overlook great artists like Hall and Oates when they set their proverbial iPod to shuffle. But I have seen rappers sample your music and now Indie rockers are coming out and admitting their great affection for H&O. Have you noticed that too?

John: We’ve been sampled frequently over the years and I consider it a tribute.

Geoff: Did you get any credit for Nelly Furtado’s song that references “Maneater?” I always thought that lyric was pretty unique, so it raised my eyebrow a bit. Any comment?

John: I just read a musicologist’s analysis of the two songs and the similarity between our version and the Furtado song is really much too close to be a coincidence. Uncanny, let’s just leave it at that.

Geoff: Okay, but I must say, the whole thing reeks of, “Hey let’s use this great hook because parents will be reminded of the number one hit song,” adding instant familiarity and their kids won’t remember the song and dig it because of the hook. Not stupid, but not exactly cool either. Seems like there should be some royalties there even if a small percentage. But I’ll leave it alone my friend. How do you and Daryl write songs together? What’s the process?

John: I think the fact that we’ve never had any rules on how or who we write with is probably one of the reasons that we’re still together.

Geoff: I heard you recently hung out with G.E. Smith. How was that?

John: G.E. came on stage about a year ago to jam with us in San Francisco and it was fun to hang with him again. Over this past Christmas I did a show with him in Telluride, Colorado, and we had a great time. He’s always been a great guitar player and he’s had so much experience working with so many great artists like Dylan and Jagger that he brings a treasure chest of musical references when he plays. I hope to get him to play on my solo album.

Geoff: How important is Tom “T-Bone” Wolk to your records and your inner circle of musicians? It seems to me he’s one of the best bass players in the world, but he’s also a multi-instrumentalist and a pretty amazing musician in general. In fact, the whole band is made up of great players and you’ve had most of them in the band for years. How important is that over the decades of touring?

John: One of the sustaining and most important elements in our career has always been the amazing and talented musicians who have played with Daryl and me over the years. We have been fortunate to have a series of great bands and, really, our show is very much about the interplay between the musicians on stage. We’ve never really had a backup band.

The people we’ve played with have been a major part of our sound and performance style. Keeping a band together, especially in the early days, was a real challenge. But in some ways I believe that our songwriting helped us find and keep a lot of great players over the years. Great players like playing good songs.