This is a classic Guitar International interview with Martin Barre dated June 23, 2009.
by Rick Landers
During the 1970s, Martin Barre’s gritty guitar work helped propel Jethro Tull up the charts with now classic tracks such as “Aqualung,” “Bungle in the Jungle,” “Cross-Eyed Mary,” and “Locomotive Breath.”
While his riffs on “Aqualung” echoed vocalist Ian Anderson’s broken-luck lyrics, they also convulsively shoved the song into the dark cavities of our minds. Anderson’s dramatic on-stage antics and huffing flute work would have overshadowed most guitarists, but with uncanny precision, Barre always knew when to weave in and out and when to pounce.
Guitar Player readers voted Barre’s playing on “Aqualung” as one of the top guitar solos of all time. Later, a Guitar World reader poll would rank it as the 25th Greatest Guitar Solo. But, to better appreciate Barre’s musical senses and guitar talents it’s valuable to listen to several albums, including Martin’s fine solo work.
No one trick pony, Martin Barre knows how to musically frame and drive a lyric by loading up with a heavy hitting lead or a more delicately nuanced riff.
The Ian Anderson-Martin Barre coupling of talent captured the base existence of outliers in their compositions, whether they were school yard voyeurs, “all time losers,” or merely “thick as a brick.” And the two could deliver when tunes needed a lighter touch. Listen to “Skating Away (On the Thin Ice of a New Day)” or “Mother Goose” where Barre’s guitar work demands our attention and adds melodic architecture to the tales.
Martin had been around the club circuit working with groups such as the Moonrakers from Birmingham, England and would later find himself with the Noblemen. The Noblemen had done some work with the San Francisco band, the Beau Brummels. While playing with Noel Redding’s group, Fat Mattress, Martin auditioned for Tull. He replaced a temporary lead guitarist named Tommy Iommi in 1969, when he joined the group and began his work with Ian Anderson to develop their unique place in rock ‘n’ roll history. Without a doubt, Martin Barre’s contributions to Jethro Tull gave added gravitas to the music and helped build Jethro Tull album sales that have exceeded 60 million.
During the ‘90s Barre would venture into solo work that included: A Summer Band [1992]; A Trick Memory [1994]; and The Meeting [1996]. Martin would later release Stage Left [2003] that offered a bluesy “Celestial Serviings,” the straight rockin’ “Count the Chicken,” and the demure “Winter Snowscape among other fine compositions.
Guitar International (Then Modern Guitar Magazine) met with Martin backstage at the Wolf Trap Foundation for the Performing Arts, Vienna, Virginia, but not before we met his beautiful wife, Julie, who sat in during the interview while we talked to the guitarist whose work with Ian Anderson was called “magical” by famed guitarist Mark Knopfler.
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Rick Landers: A couple years ago I understand you bought a place in British Columbia. But, thought you lived in Southern England. Is one a vacation spot and one a regular home?
Martin Barre: No comment.
Rick: Okay…
Martin: No, I’m teasing you. I was gonna do “no comment” to all your questions. [Both Laughing]
Rick: That’d be a great interview. Why British Columbia?
Martin: I just love it. I love the outdoors. I love skiing, snowboarding, wakeboarding, tennis and running. I’m a big outdoor person and it’s a great place to be, outdoors hiking. It’s beautiful, people are nice. It’s a simple, slow way of life and I guess at the back of my mind I always think if things go seriously pear-shaped in the world. It’d be a good place to be, because it’s a bit of a sort of calm, not too many people. They’re self-supporting and it’s basically stable. If you’re gonna have problems, not that we are, but I just think that’s a great place to be.
Rick: It’s a great escape.
Martin: Yeah, we love it. It’s a holiday thing and we hardly ever get there because we work.
Rick: And you’ve got a place in Devon in England?
Martin: Well, we live there. We live in Devon.
Rick: Your wife said that you’re having it restored.
Martin: Yeah, it’s an old place. I mean most houses in England are old.
Rick: Is that down by Lyme Regis?
Martin: No. We moved from Lyme Regis. This is near Plymouth.
Rick: Okay. I got down to Lyme Regis a long item ago, when I hitchhiked from Coventry.
Martin: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah! We lived there for 30 years and I’ve known it for 50 years. I’m not from there, but I feel like I am.
Rick: Do you live in a place that is more remote or in town?
Martin: Plymouth is a big town. It’s ten minutes away. It’s on the outskirts of a village. No, it’s not remote. We were remote before, but we had a big house and studio and we just sold everything and simplified our lives a bit.
Rick: You sold the studio?
Martin: Yeah, everything had to go.
Rick: Were you using Pro Tools?
Martin: No, it was a studio.
Rick: A real studio compared to what a lot of people might…
Martin: No, I was teasing again. [Rick Laughing] I don’t do computers, so I had an engineer who did that and I’ve got a room at the new house which I’ll record in and hope we do a new album and I have a machine which I can upgrade. I’m looking at the Tascam 48X, but I need to find out a lot more about it and hope that would just be a push-a-button, hands-on and then for the other thing I would get somebody in to do. It’s no longer viable to have an engineer and pay him $200 an hour, because at the end of it I’ll probably get paid $2 an hour. Selling CDs and such; it doesn’t work anymore.
Rick: Ian Anderson’s known for his stage antics, at least in the past. But, I would think he’s gotta be a pretty well-grounded guy to keep a music career going for such a long time. Do you find that you both are pretty grounded to maintain the relationship that you’ve had over the years?
Martin: Yeah, we are. Grounded is a good word. We know what we do and we don’t have to sort of analyze it and we just get on and do it. It’s a job. We know our job inside out. We know what we can’t do. We know what we can do. We know what don’t do very well. We know what we do well and when we fuck up, we know. After 40 years you’ve got your job down to a T, really.
Rick: Can you tell us a few highlights of the times that you guys worked together over the years, and I know there must be a lot, but anything that comes to mind?
Martin: Well it doesn’t, you know, it’s 40 years. To pick out anything in 40 years is impossible. But, I loved all the stages that we’ve been through. We started off simple with no back line, one roadie, play for half an hour before the main act came on, everything sounded sort of spazzy and raucous and unpolished. I liked that. And then the big show was fun.
As we got bigger the big set stage productions were great fun. It was different. We were flying first class and spending nine months of the year away from home and were sort of one of the top ten touring bands in the early seventies. Then it sort of dipped, but I mean there’s highs and lows. But, the change was always good. Obviously lows aren’t good per se, but it signposted a change in what we did and how we did it. It’s always been fun. It’s always different.
Rick: Have you found that your music maybe faded away a little bit in the ’80s and ’90s and it’s sort of resurged? Because all the kids are listening to classic rock again, real young kids.
Martin: Yeah. Well, it didn’t for us. But, I guess it did for a certain section of the audience. Punk music came in and it was big and it was overbearing. But, you know it was important and it sort of made a mockery of what we did. It was the anti-heavy metal. And it was good. It did all music good. It was a shake-up. It’s a reality check. I think music’s always positive no matter what happens to you. If you’re on a roll then you enjoy that, but if things are quiet you have to sort of analyze where you are, what things have changed and try and adapt what you do. But, we’ve never stopped working.
Even when things weren’t big, even when things were in a trough, we were touring. Not so much in the States. We had a year off. We’d do a tour of the States one year and then we would go to India and South America and Eastern Europe. I mean, there’s another market where it’s hot. It can’t be hot every year for us everywhere, because we would have outstayed our welcome. It works for us well because we can move around and give people a break.
Rick: Have you been to China?
Martin: No.
Rick: Any plans?
Martin: Well, I guess you get invited. People are starting to go there so I guess it’ll happen.
Rick: Yeah, at some point. Your guitar, notably things like “Locomotive Breath”, “Aqualung” and others of that era have a heavy-handed riff, but you’re also known for some beautiful I guess they’re madrigal or baroque type arrangements? Did you study the concepts of the madrigal thing where you’re expressing the words melodically?
Rick: My understanding is some of your music…
Martin: Oh no, I don’t mean it that way! I know what you’re saying. [Both Laughing] You’re making it sound cleverer than it is. I love melody and I love classical music and I love harmony and movements and emotion, tonalities. More than anything I love melody and I’ve always thought and hoped that I’ve had a very strong sense of melody and I’ve never played fast, proper fast, because I’m not any good at it, but I’ve never wanted to. This is probably is not coming out too good, is it?
But, I don’t like that. I don’t like the sort of raucous, speed thing. It doesn’t do anything for me and I’m sure young kids love it. They just love the high of the things that are powerful and fast. It’s like driving a fast car. I actually prefer the vintage car doing 30 miles an hour, but in great style. But, I don’t know. I haven’t studied it. I just listen to what I like.
Rick: How’ did you end up working with Pentangle a couple years ago?
Martin: I didn’t.
Rick: I thought you worked with Pentangle?
Martin: No. I worked with somebody who had been in Pentangle which was Jackie McShea, but not with Pen…Oh, you’re right! I told a lie. I did didn’t I? Was it Pentangle? It was, wasn’t it? Sorry. I beg your pardon.
They recorded an album at the studio and they sort of very kindly asked me to play on a couple on tracks and a lot of bands have been down there and I get on with the people. I like whatever they do, whoever they are and I like to meet them, and not all the music’s great, but some of it really is. Some really good bands have been there, so it’s fun to go and play something and very often it’s something I wouldn’t normally do. So it challenges me.
Rick: Ever play with John Martyn or Roy Harper?
Martin: No.
Rick: The Pentangle type music is pretty unique. If our readers want to explore that type of music, what albums or what type of music would you ask them to pick up and listen to?
Martin: Flook – a great band. Not really like Pentangle, but I mean if I was being entirely honest, I wouldn’t say I’m not endorsing that music by playing it. I had a great time and I like the songs and Seth Lakeman is another artist that I really, really like. Well there’s two, Seth Layton and Flook – two really good bands.
Rick: I’ve heard that you own a ’59 Les Paul?
Martin: Oh, yeah. It’s gone.
Rick: It’s gone?
Martin: Sorry.
Rick: That’s a dream guitar for most of us. I was wondering what about that guitar do you think that really speaks to people? Is it because Clapton played it and…?
Martin: Well, to me the whole thing of vintage guitars has moved away from music. I’ve got no interest in them. Well, I wouldn’t say I have no interest. I have no interest in something that’s worth that much money, because it just bears no link to reality. I sold mine and that paid for a big chunk of that nice house in British Columbia, thank you very much, and I get a lot more enjoyment out of the house in Canada than the guitar.
Rick: Well, you’ve got some great guitars, I see.
Martin: Well, you know, I mean this PRS is a great guitar. It sounds good and it’s a Les Paul shape. I mean if my ’59 was there and this was next to it and I felt like a bit of a play, I’d pick up this one because it sounds better.
Rick: I saw you had a Taylor with a T-5 out there?
Martin: Yeah, that’s more of a practical thing to take on the road and I quite like it. Acoustics aren’t particularly my thing and I’ve got a lot of them. I just put a Fishman on all of them. I’ve got a Fishman on every mandolin and every acoustic guitar that I own, so they all sound the same. And they’re good, but it means that you plug a bouzouki into the same outlet as you plug your steel acoustic and the levels are the same. It’s easy. But, the T-5, it’s nice to play. I also put a Fishman on it. I didn’t really get on with the soap bar thing.
Rick: What was Ian playing?
Martin: It’s a hand-made guitar by Brook guitars. A small company that Manson…
Rick: Hugh Manson?
Martin: No, Andy Manson.
Rick: Different guy. Okay.
Martin: Well they’re brothers. Hugh does electric. Andy does acoustics, or did. He doesn’t do it anymore, but then Brook Guitars was one of his partners, Andy Manson’s.
Rick: Okay. You’re a PRS guitar endorsee. Is that correct?
Martin: Yeah. By default rather than by arrangement, because I played them. I think I just tried a PRS for the day in a music shop, took it home and I played. It’s a 513 and I loved it, you know. Plus it’s a compromise between a Strat and a Les Paul and I don’t mean ‘compromise’. I mean it does both the jobs, which is a compromise more at the Strat end because Strats are a sound unto themselves. But, anyway it suited me because very often I’ll take a guitar. I got a weekend in Romania and I can’t take a rack of guitars, so I just take a guitar in a gig bag because it’s, you know, flying in and out.
Rick: You can’t carry it on then?
Martin: Yeah, we do gig flight on a real tight budget and for that it does everything. I mean I can use my 513 all night. I probably will tonight. It’s all I need.
Rick: So, you’ve got the 513 and then you’ve got this one? What’s this one, a single cutaway?
Martin: Yeah, don’t ask me what model it is.
Rick: It’s the PRS single cut.
Martin: Yeah I guess it is. I think it’s the hollowed one. I have a PRS anyway, which is the end of the story. I had a hollow body, beautiful, a hollow body, thin one, it’s just gorgeous. Anyway, so I started using them and I was in the States and that was cool. I just think they’re great guitars. I talked to them and said, “Oh, this is Martin Barre,” and I just had a chat about what they were doing and I said, “It was great and I appreciate playing something of quality and I just wanna tell you that.” You know, everybody likes a compliment. “I think you’ve got a great product.” We talked and chatted and became friends.
Rick: Yeah, nice guys.
Martin: And they said, “You know that we’ll be doing a show in Birmingham, a music show. Will you come along?” I said, “Yep.” “Do you want to get up and play?” “Yep.” And so it’s all sudden. There is no arrangement and I like it a lot. That’s why I use them, because I love them, not because somebody says “Here’s a free guitar.”
Rick: Were you talking to Paul?
Martin: I met Paul a lot later. Yeah, they’re just good people. They’ve got a great attitude and they’ve got a great approach to what they’re doing.
Rick: And Paul’s got his own group.
Martin: I’ve played with them.
Martin: Now,this is a great project and good people and they care about their artists. They don’t give you anything for nothing because that small cut, they’re trying to make a living and I appreciate and respect that in them. But, if you’re stuck in a corner they will help you out. When we play in Seattle they all come. They all wanna come and see the gig and chat. It’s great and that should be the relationship. In the big companies it’s all about, if you’re not a big name, they don’t give a shit. They don’t give a shit about the quality of their instruments either.
Rick: Some of them don’t. Yeah, true. We talked about that a little bit ago.
Martin: Yeah, so the vintage thing, I couldn’t be bothered with it. I’d rather do something fun with the money than sort of add them on the wall and tell people how much they are worth.
Rick: Ultimately it’s what’s coming out of your guitar.
Martin: Yeah. It’s a tool, but I can see that people collect them and they’re valuable and that’s nothing to do with what I do.
Rick: You also play flute right?
Martin: Yeah.
Rick: Did you learn that from Ian or did he influence you at all?
Martin: No.
Rick: Did you play before?
Martin: No, I played before. I played in a band, played flute in a band in England before I ever heard of Ian.
Rick: Was that The Noblemen or Motivator?
Martin: After that, yeah, they were called Gethsemane. We were rubbish, but I still listen to all the flute and flute players. Obviously Roland Kirk, and I used to play in that style. Then I heard that there was another guy doing the same thing, I was like, well,then I went to see him play.
Rick: Were you impressed?
Martin: Oh yeah! Oh absolutely. I wanted to be in that band, not because of Ian. I didn’t want to do what Ian did. Actually, I wanted be the guitar player. I thought it was a great band and I loved the flute and I loved the guitar and they were different. They weren’t the sort of boring, “ploddy” blues. There was a lot of boring music in England at the time and a few pretentious blues players that are rubbish.
Rick: Mid ’60s?
Martin: Well, getting towards the late ’60s. But, I just thought that’s a bit of a fresh air, fresh life…light…light fresh.
Rick: Who are a couple of players you like these days?
Martin: I like a mix and the guy I really, really like is Robben Ford, who’s controlling it. He’s got all that stuff in there, but he’s really pulling it in and out and that I really do love. I would call him a jazz player, but he’s got great taste.
Rick: While you’re on tour, how does a typical business day compared with a day you might have off while you’re on tour?
Martin: Some days are great. In America we tend to drive. I drive myself and my wife. I just like independence and I hate airports, as everybody does. I hate this side of it. It used to be fun, but there’s nothing about air travel now that is enjoyable. Nothing. So just getting in the car suits me, suits most of us, and hopefully it’s a short journey. And I try to run whenever I can, to sort of get out in the air, see a bit of the place and if it’s a day off find a park, national park or whatever you call them here.
Rick: Congratulations on your wedding anniversary. 30 years right?
Martin: Well, thank you. We went wake-boarding this morning at 7:00.
Rick: Seven o’clock…oooh…early
Martin: It’s good. No, I went for a run here. It’s therapeutic, you know. It sort of keeps me sharpish and I feel good if I’ve done it. It’s a bit of a, I guess a druggy thing when you run.
Rick: The rock and roll lifestyle tends not to be thought of as being real healthy. So what would you tell some young kids who are kind of doing stuff that’s not so healthy?
Martin: Pfft! They’re wasting their time and their lives because it’s…when they get to be my age, hopefully they do, I mean any kids that are drug using and alkies, if they reach 60, they’re gonna be lucky, but they’ll regret their lifestyle when they do reach 60. Because they’ll be fucked. Excuse my language but, I’ve been lucky. I never liked the clubbiness, the niche thing of people smoking dope and all laughing. I was never one of the crowd, so by default I didn’t do it.
Rick: So you’ve never really been into the drug scene.
Martin: No, no. I’ve seen too many people die from it. I mean people who could have a great life died. What a waste.
Rick: You played with Jimi Hendrix at some point right? You were…
Martin: With him.
Rick: What a waste that was…
Martin: Yeah! Absolutely. I mean, and a lovely guy, he was the first guy I met in America who was a really nice guy. He wasn’t a rock star, hadn’t got anything to prove. He was just a nice guy and I thought that’s great. That’s what I liked about him. And he was a good player, but that wasn’t important. He was a good kid. And you meet people who don’t have a life outside of music. I mean I personally think it’s important that you do because you need a bit of a balance. I’m lucky, I just happen to love sports. But, it’s not for everybody. Not everybody wants to go for a run, not everybody wants to wakeboard or windsurf or play tennis. But, for some reason,and I’m not good at them, I just do it.
Rick: Gives you a kind of a rush, I guess, so…
Martin: Yeah, yeah it does something. I can’t explain it, but I can’t dedicate every hour of my day to music. I probably have done in the past, but I just didn’t know that there’s other people, to do other things or that there’s family things or things with your wife or, you know, whatever. You have to have a balance.
Rick: Keep things well rounded.
Martin: And maybe if I played 10 hours a day I’d be a better player, but it doesn’t suit me to do that.
Rick: Anything more on Hendrix?
Martin: Oh yeah, yeah. He sort of deteriorated, you know. He was sort of being very ordinary and nice, chatty but downhill and finally sort of looks at you and couldn’t remember who you were. There’s no controlling it. It was awful.
Rick: I guess it reinforces your own lifestyle.
Martin: Yeah. I’ve never been self-righteous, which is why I just happen to enjoy it. I could have equally happened to enjoy drugs, but I’m glad I don’t and I’m lucky that I didn’t go in another direction. But, no, I don’t preach. I don’t impose it on anybody else, but that’s where I got my fun as well as music. I love music, but it’s not everything.
Rick: That balance has probably helped you have a good relationship for 30 years, too. I would think with another person so…
Martin: Well yeah, it has. Yeah. I mean, I do have an ego. I’m not allowed it, I don’t like him anyway, but I try to explain to Julie that you have to have an ego to do what you do because you can’t go in front of 6,000 people if you are shy, reserved, and can’t even look them in the eye. You need some sort of ego to be able to get up there and entertain, whatever you do up there. But, it’s controlling you and you can’t believe that’s normal. Once you believe that…
Rick: Yeah. You can’t just define yourself based on that reaction.
Martin: Not at all. It’s dangerous and there are too many people who do.
Rick: Do you have any new albums in the works or anything?
Rick: Yeah, life intrudes.
Martin: No. I’ve started doing an album of Tull songs on acoustics and I did about five or six roughs, but then we moved so that’s a project that’s on the shelf.
Martin: Yeah. And I still would like to do it, but they’re not the songs that you know. The real ones that were sort of tucked away and people might not know them very well. But, they’re great songs.
Rick: You enjoy playing them?
Martin: Yeah and I changed and added to it. The idea is to take a song and chop it, change it. Basically put my ideas and my music in it or around it, but still keep the songs intact as much as possible. But, now I wanna do another album anyway, so it’s probably more important that I do try and write another album.
Rick: So, your own music rather than Tull music?
Martin: Yeah. But, time’s moved on and I should have done the Tull about 18 months ago.
Rick: You were working on Tull about 2006 or so, I thought it said on your website that you were working on it.
Martin: Yeah, probably.
Rick: [Laughing] Well, these things happen. What other stringed instruments are you playing these days, besides guitar?
Martin: I love bouzouki and I quite like the mandolin. I find the mandolin the harder to adapt to.
Rick: The neck’s too small.
Martin: Yeah, it’s smaller, but I still like it and plus I don’t think I’d be a good player, but bouzouki it’s like a textural instrument. It’s an octave mandolin basically. An octave down and there’s mandolas and there’s octave mandolins and bouzoukis, sort of slightly different versions of it. But, they are all double string. Yeah, they’re nice and I love the sound of them.
Rick: Do you ever play slide guitar?
Martin: Really, rarely. I’m playing it tonight. [Laughs] Then you’ll hear and understand why I don’t play it much.
Rick: Alright here’s the last question: when you’re on stage and cranking something like “Locomotive Breath” or some other hard rockers, do you look at the audience and think, “Who are all these old people?”
Martin: No, no, no. I love it. I mean I love the reaction. It’s never a chore to do those songs, because you know when people light up. I don’t mean “Light up.” But, some of them do. [Laughs] Anyway, it’s a great feeling. You’re sort of sharing something with them and it’s lovely. It’s important for them and so it becomes important for me and I’m not gonna play it here or practice it, because obviously I’ve played it a million times. But, it’s a great occasion and you have to respect why the audience is there and what they wanna hear.
Rick: Have you found that parents bring their kids, so you got yourself a different mix than what you had 30 years ago?
Martin: Yeah. There was a kid, a guy near the front row last night and his son looks about 14, 15 and he was with his dad and it was fantastic. You can tell because they were mocking somebody, it wasn’t mocking me, I think he was a drummer. But, it’s such a great feeling because he’s into it and his dad’s getting that interaction between them. But, I think for a kid of that age to enjoy it, that’s really nice. I really enjoyed it. I mean anybody that I see watching me, I love it because it makes me feel I’m doing something worthwhile.
Martin: Yeah. It gives you a kick. You wanna feel like you’re doing something useful and that people are actually, well kind of pretentious to say they’re learning from you, whatever, but they’re enjoying what you’re doing. Well, obviously enjoying what the band does, but it’s just sort of picking things out. It’s a nice feeling.
Rick: Yeah. It’s also fun watching people who actually did the music back in the ’60s and ’70s, really see them doing it. What type of amps are you using out there?
Martin: Soldanos. I’ve used those for a long time. I’ve got a lot of them. I’ve got one in Canada, two in America, two in Europe and three in England. They’re all over the place.
Rick: You just bring your guitar and plug it in.
Martin: Yeah, so sort of stock ’em up. They’re great. I love them.
Rick: How do you go about writing your songs?
Martin: I sit down and play and if something sounds good, I’ll stick it on the old cassette recorder and twiddle about with it. If it sort of comes to a dead end, it’s still in there till I sort of go somewhere else, pick up a bouzouki or something then sort of listen back to them. If something sounds good the next day then I’ll work on it. Something sounds crap then I move on.
Rick: Do you carry a recorder with you?
Martin: Oh, just at home. Yeah, I mean anything I think of on the road I usually forget.
Rick: I think that’s what I would do.
Martin: And sometimes a nice chord is the beginning of a bit of music. Most songs I forgot them. Ian once said that if anything was good enough you’ll remember it. So an idea, if it’s a good one, it’ll stay in there.
Rick: Martin, thanks for the interview.
Martin: I love anything to do with guitars. Where it’s sort of a “How many are in the band?” or “What are your favorite albums?” I just glaze over. Really boring, so I don’t want to do them. But, guitars and music, guitar music, I like to talk about it occasionally.
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Related Links
Martin Barre
Jethro Tull
Wolf Trap Foundation for the Performing Arts
PRS Guitars
Michael G. Stewart
