Charlie Sexton Interview Part III: The Arc Angels, Tom Waits, and Double Trouble

By: Arlene R. Weiss

The Arc Angels, their sole 1992 self-titled international release on Geffen Records, and the epic, incendiary musical maelstrom that they divined in their short lived body of work, ignited fireworks of accolades from both the public and the music industry, further propelling Sexton’s career and renown into the stratosphere to this very day. But personal problems and creative differences among the band’s members forced The Arc Angels’ dissolution in 1994, just as they were only beginning to fulfill their promise.

And so Sexton, again artistically stretching, always and ever open to new and unique creative projects and opportunities, formed his own band, The Charlie Sexton Sextet, and released 1995’s critically lauded Under The Wishing Tree. The album showcased Sexton’s introspective songwriting, singing, and eloquent playing, which reflected a now mature, contemplative artist eager to express his vast range and love of diverse and eclectic music styles including Celtic, folk, rock, and blues, but more importantly, his yearning to express his ongoing vision, insight, and evolution as an artist.

Thus, recently, the six string virtuoso realized his true calling as a producer, working hands-on in the recording studio (as well as performing his detailed, lush, sublime guitar textures) on Lucinda Williams’ 2001 release, Essence, and on Double Trouble’s all star guest laden album, 2001’s Been A Long Time. From 1999 on, the ever-evolving Texas guitar slinger has been garnering both critical and public esteem and acclaim for his soaring, stinging, blistering guitar playing as a member of Bob Dylan’s touring band. And if that’s not feather enough in Sexton’s cap, he’s also producing and playing guitar on fellow Texan singer, songwriter Edie Brickell’s new album, work in progress, (Volcano, which was completed and released October 2003), and he also headlined for a special “one time” reunion performance of The Arc Angels as the grand finale closing act at the first annual, International “Austin City Limits” Music Festival in September 2002, to much buzz and fanfare.

With the tour bus waiting, (as Sexton was finishing up touring with Dylan at the time), and twenty four hours in the day not enough for this wonderfully prolific talent, a delightfully charming and whimsical, yet reflective and resolute Sexton, expounded in mammoth detail and depth to what amounted to an autobiographical portrait and collection of all things guitar….from gear to his celestial playing technique, to fond and amazing anecdotes of the guitar shaped events, artists, and heart, of the life….and music, of Charlie Sexton.

******

Arlene: Who are your main guitar and musical influences?

Charlie Sexton: I like Robert Fripp as much as I like Albert Collins. I like Carlos Alomar as much as I like Leadbelly.

Arlene: But that’s good because you have a multi-range of artists that you admire.

Charlie Sexton: Yes. I can’t put Paganini over…It’s that my interests are so deep. Scotty Moore was probably the biggest influence early on in my life, when he played with Elvis on the Sun session stuff. I just love Scotty Moore. I like Paul Burlison who was in The Johnny Burnette Trio. Then there’s Bill Dillon who has played with everybody from Edie Brickell to Paul Simon. He’s really cool.

Arlene: In terms of singer, songwriters, you’ve cited Tom Waits as one of your main influences.

Edie Brickell - Volcano

Charlie Sexton: Tom’s a great guitar player!

Arlene: Yes! And I heard that you finally, recently, got to perform with him. How did the two of you finally meet up, how did the performance come about, and especially, what was the emotional experience, and the impact of that for you? How did that inform you professionally as an artist?

Charlie Sexton: There was this fundraiser up in Hillsboro, in northern California. A couple of friends of mine were playing the show. So one of my friends asked, “Why don’t you come perform with me?” I said, “Ok.” That was my friend Tonio K., who was on the bill. There was Alejandro Escovedo, from Austin, who was also playing. T-Bone Burnett, who is a friend, and his wife, Sam Phillips were also performing, and I love Sam Phillips and T-Bone Burnett. Charlie Musselwhite was there as well. Then Tom was the headliner.

So we went there, and because I wanted to help, I offered and said to Tom, “Do you need any help tomorrow? If I can do anything, just let me know.” It was my birthday. This was about four or five years ago. We did our soundcheck, everybody else did their soundcheck, and then Tom did his soundcheck. He was performing solo. They locked the doors to the theater, and I spent the afternoon with Tom doing a soundcheck. We were hanging out. Tom was playing and doing his show, and he goes, “Hey, why don’t you come out at the end and do some songs with me?” So it was Tom and the Charlies, me and Musselwhite, backing up!

One of the songs that we did was “Jesus Gonna Be Here,” which is on Bone Machine. It’s amazing, because it’s Tom playing upright bass and singing, and on the entire song, the only thing Tom plays, is one note, live. (Charlie exuberantly sings words, and vocalized guitar sounds to “Jesus Gonna Be Here”) “Jesus Gonna Be Here, Yeah! Yeah!, Waahhhh!” That’s it! It was great! By the end of the show, Charlie played a harp, I played guitar, and Tom did vocals!

Arlene: Tell me how you, Doyle Bramhall II, and Double Trouble got invited to reunite as the Arc Angels and actually perform as the headlining, grand finale, closing act at the very first, 2002 “Austin City Limits” Music Festival? What are your reflections of that performance, knowing that you and the band…..your very reunion and performance, was a historic context, in and of itself; but it was also being done and performed at an equally historic milestone event?

Charlie Sexton: Since the band split up, there have been some offers here and there to do some shows. About four years ago, we did a handful of shows, about four or five shows, in Texas, because a few offers would come in and we thought, “Oh, this would be fun.” But by the time the band had originally split up, no one was getting along very well for a multitude of reasons. Since then, we became friends. I started writing with Doyle on his projects, and for his records. I’ve also been working with Chris and Tommy on their record, and what have you.

Then we got the call to do the festival. It’s one of the offers that comes through every now and then. I was completely shocked that they wanted us to close everything. I was honored to be on the bill, because it was a great roster of people that were performing. They asked us to do the reunion performance and it was just one of those things where it worked out for everybody schedule wise, so we just did it.

Arlene: The name for The Arc Angels; is normally spelled, Archangel, and you and the band had spelled it as two separate words, Arc and Angels. Isn’t that an intentional reference to The ARC, The Austin Rehearsal Complex?

Bone Machine - Tom Waits

Charlie Sexton: Totally, because that’s where it all….

Arlene: I had a feeling because you’ve recorded so much of your work there through the years.

Charlie Sexton: Yeah! Well what happened was, I had a studio there. The people that owned and ran that, one of the owners, (Wayne Nagle), was my road manager for years. The other owner, (Don Harvey), was my drummer for awhile, on my first record. So they had met through me. The first day it opened, I had my studio there. I had a little studio there. So I was there almost every day, and I was at that place for nine years. And in the hallways, when I’d go to work, I’d see……

Arlene: That’s a nice tip of the hat. I think it’s a nice way to pay homage to your roots and to a place that you spent so much of your time creating music at.

Charlie Sexton: After Stevie did Family Style with Jimmie, they were going to go out and do a tour without Double Trouble. It was going to be Stevie, along with Jimmie and some guys from the record. So I’d run into Chris Layton in the hallways, who’s an old friend, and he goes, “Hey, listen. We’re not really doing much. We should do some gigs. Tommy, and I, and you, and Doyle. I said, “Ok. Let’s do it.” We actually booked a gig on a Monday night in Austin in some little club, just for fun. Down, a few weeks away, before we could do the gig, Stevie was killed and obviously, we didn’t do the show, because Chris and Tommy were completely distraught. We all were.

Then at some point, they needed to get out and play and start the process of trying to heal. So we did one show, and it just went over. It was a lot of fun. It went over great. It was well attended, and so we booked another gig. Then, by the time we did our second gig, there were some record companies calling and it all started from there. It just sort of happened. We were a band before we knew we were a band. [Laughing] The band name is definitely a reference, because it all began in the hallways of The ARC. It’s also a play on words, on The Archangels, in the Biblical sense.

Arlene: Last year, you reunited with Double Trouble and Doyle to produce, write, sing, and play some of your most eloquent guitar work, on Double Trouble’s record, Been A Long Time, which you followed up with two all star gala reunion performances, which included Double Trouble and Doyle, as well as special guests, Jonny Lang, Eric Johnson, Jimmie Vaughan, Kenny Wayne Shepherd, and most of Austin’s music elite. But at both of the performances, which were held the same day, and I followed this as it happened, for an “Austin City Limits” taping and at The Austin Music Hall, you were the Musical Director. How did you get involved as the Musical Director for the two performances, and what were the challenges, demands, and satisfaction, of pulling together so many talented guitarists and artists in a major, large scale, cohesive stage production, that came off seamless and full of exuberant, creative synergy?

Charlie Sexton: I started off just to do one track on the Double Trouble record. That was “Cry Sky.” That was the first thing that I did with them. They had already done it once and they weren’t happy with how it had turned out. So, I came in and redid some things on production and so forth. Then after we did that one song, they went, “You’re kind of good at this, and helpful, so do some more!” So whenever I was in town, or available, we would do another session, whether it was with Dr. John, or Jonny Lang, or whoever. Since I had done all that work on that record and oversaw a lot of the recording, Chris called me and said, “Will you M.D. this thing, because with that amount of people, it helps to have one person spearhead the whole thing.” Plus, I don’t get in people’s way when they’re working on things. So when Dr. John couldn’t make the two performances, I said, “Let’s get Jonny to sing the track he did.” And “How do we do it? Are we going to do a different version than Dr. John did on the record? Let’s work out the song this way.”

Arlene: You said that you like being in charge of things from the producing angle. That it’s like directing for you. Doesn’t stage management fall into the same feeling for you, creatively?

Charlie Sexton: Producing a record is like being a Director on a film. When I’m in that kind of job, I do my best to be very open minded and sort of invisible.

Arlene: As talented as everybody is, and they are, it still takes a great Director to bring out that talent at its best and brightest. You really know how to tap the potential of people. And that’s a talent in and of itself.

Charlie Sexton: Yeah! Like when we did the taping of Jonny doing the song, “Baby, There’s No One Like You,” he had never sung the song because Dr. John had done it on the record.

Arlene: Jonny brought the house down, too!

Charlie Sexton: He did, but the thing that you didn’t see, [Laughing] was we had three false starts because Jonny forgot……He would get to a certain part and he’d forget the next line, and go “Oh no.” He’d get nervous, and I’m standing next to him going, “Oh that’s fine. Good.” By the third time, he’s like “Oh no!” He’s really nervous. I’m going, “Come on Jonny, three’s the charm!” [Laughs] And then he totally killed them with his performance!

Arlene: They need to have an “Austin City Limits” outtakes, like when you watch comedy shows and they have the little bloopers at the beginning and the end!

Charlie Sexton: Jonny is one of the sweetest guys I’ve ever known. He is just the greatest guy.

Arlene: Oh, I adore him! I thought his version, and don’t get me wrong, I love the Dr. John version on the record….I thought Jonny’s live version was better. He had that whole audience cheering!

Charlie Sexton: He is it!

Arlene: But you, when you opened that show on the guitar, that set the whole thing in motion. Just the shot of you and the sound! It was so gorgeous. It was so eloquent when you were playing that acoustic Gibson, starting “Cry Sky” at the beginning of the show. That just set the whole thing…..I knew everything was going to be great after that.

Charlie Sexton: That’s another outtake that you didn’t see. That was the first thing we shot. And the guy that was working with me, there was a miscommunication about where the capo went, and I was so overwhelmed with everything that was going on, that I started playing the song. The capo was in the wrong place! It was in the wrong key! [Laughing] I wasn’t thinking about it, because I was like, “Ok. This is what’s going to happen next. I have to make sure these guys come in on the song.” And no one is starting, and the reason, Double Trouble goes, “Charlie! You’re in the wrong key!” I went, “Oh Man!” [Laughs] So I made my mistake early on in that performance!

Been a Long Time - Double Trouble

Arlene: What was The Austin Music Hall performance like that night? How did that go?

Charlie Sexton: It was crazy, because that whole day, we had already done three days of rehearsals with all the bands. I had come straight off tour, but the taping started 8:00 in the morning, we were at the studio all day, went to sound check, and had an hour between that and the show. But it was great. It was a great way to do it all, to do the taping, and then finish it off with a live show. It was a great way to go about it.

Arlene: How did you actually get involved with working on Been A Long Time, and in so many different creative roles on that particular record? You produced it, you co-wrote some of the songs, you sang, and of course you played guitar?

Charlie Sexton: When people say, “Well what do you do?” I say, “Whatever it takes.” That’s the way I look at it. If it’s play, then I play. If it’s step out and not play, then I do that too.

Arlene: How did you get the call from Double Trouble to do all that work on their record? How did that come about?

Charlie Sexton: Well, even on The Arc Angels’ record, on a lot of the songs, I’d done a lot of preliminary production, arranging, hammering out the way things should sound, and the vibe. So Tommy and Chris knew that was my bag. They also heard me do other work along the way. So it started with one song, “Cry Sky”, and then Tommy just freaked and went, “You’ve really made this come to life!” So little by little, I would do more and more.

Arlene: “Turn Towards The Mirror”, the duet between you and Doyle….magic!

Charlie Sexton: They came in and Chris said “I have this song.” We got in the studio, and he did have a song, but it wasn’t quite finished yet. We had to track that day. So we sat down, figured out the pinholes, and smoothed it out.

Arlene: How did you first meet and begin working with Double Trouble; with Tommy and Chris?

Charlie Sexton: The first time I met Chris was when the original bass player for Double Trouble was Jackie Newhouse, and I used to go see Stevie play all the time. Stevie would let me go up and play. Then I remember the first time I met Tommy, Stevie was playing somewhere in Austin and I came. I had never seen Tommy. He had just joined the band. So I showed up, and it’s about quarter to two in the morning, Stevie sees me, he goes, “Hey, come get up here and play!” I said “Ok.” So Stevie gives me his guitar and he goes to get a drink or something. I remember the look on Tommy’s face, like, “Why is Stevie doing this, letting this kid get up here and play?!” And I go, “Ok, Elmore James! [Emulates guitar sound] waaahhh!!” And Tommy was just looking at me like, “I don’t believe this!”

Arlene: How old were you then?

Charlie Sexton: Probably about eleven or twelve!

Arlene: Little, green wet behind the ears kid! [Laughing] You’ve also performed on a lot of Doyle’s solo records. How did you first meet and begin working with Doyle?

Charlie Sexton: The first time I saw Doyle, was when he was playing in The Thunderbirds and Jimmie showed me a videotape of Doyle performing, and I went, “Oh, cool!” But actually, I take it back. I met Doyle when I was on the road. I was about thirteen or fourteen, we played some little dive in Fort Worth, and his mother I think, brought him out to the show.

Arlene: Though you’ve also distinguished yourself as an esteemed artist and as a solo artist in your own right, continuously finding, shaping, and evolving your own distinct musical voice, it seems that you very often welcome creative opportunities to join forces with any, and all, of your past Arc Angels colleagues. Can you elaborate on this, and also, it seems like there has always been this powerful chemistry and camaraderie amongst the four of you, whenever you work together.

Charlie Sexton: It’s one of those natural things. We never intended to do it. Us getting together in the first place, just sort of happened. Originally, I did a lot of that because I felt a certain personal debt that I had to repay to Chris and to Tommy, because they were instrumental in my development, early on, and particularly, because of the way everything went down in life, with Stevie passing on and all. I felt that it was the least I could do. If I could help them recover musically from such a great tragedy, then it was definitely my duty to do so.

Arlene: But fate sometimes, is a good thing because when you all come together, there’s real chemistry.

Charlie Sexton: Yes! Also, Doyle and I, we’re about the same age. I never perform and play with anyone my own age, and Doyle’s one of the few. And we’re diverse, yet more and more, we share more musical things in common.

Arlene: Any possibility that The Arc Angels will ever get together for a new record and a major tour someday?

Charlie Sexton: Well, never say never!

Arlene: Though you’re renowned for your blues, rock roots and guitar playing, your work with artists such as Double Trouble, Tom Waits, Edie Brickell, and Lucinda Williams, are examples of your multi-faceted, and multi-styled musical roots and guitar playing. What musical direction do you think you will be pursuing next in terms of your guitar playing, your producing, and your many talents as a singer, songwriter?

Charlie Sexton: I think the best directions happen naturally, so I just do what I’m hearing in my head, or what I’m feeling in my heart. It’s not something that I like to put a tag on, because it will get tagged by someone eventually anyway.

Arlene: Right. You want to expand your horizons in terms of everything, producing, singing, working with any artist, guitar playing. It doesn’t matter what music genre it is.

Charlie Sexton: Yeah! It could be whatever I help someone get across in their music, if I can play a small part in that, then that’s what can be done and what I want to do.